Another thought, who would be qualified to teach? No more straight from basic school, to college/university and out into the schools with a teaching degree in whatever subject. I think most subjects should require people with practical experience in their fields, with accomplishments and solid reputation to go with the experience.
Especially on the trades side of things, we want the grizzled, scarred, fingers and limbs missing men who became good the hard way. Would still have to filter out for decent educators though.
Some subjects might be safe to have 20 somethings teach, perhaps early on and at the most basic levels.
I don't know. It's one of those "know it when you see it" things. I really don't know.
There ought not to be a licensing board. It should not be a trade - that is, it should not be unionized. There ought not to be a guild.
However without some protection similar to tenure we will lose real scholars and real scholarship to the mob.
I'm going to do this, and if you think of it, you do it too - I'm going to see how it was done in ancient Greece, in Rome, in Medieval times, and perhaps up to 1750. There is probably an exemplary model or models in there somewhere.
The amazing part of this project is that almost all of these hoary chestnuts have been cracked. The one thing we have not yet overcome is postmodernism and its cancerous fingers throughout our world.
Well, universal, or near universal education was not exactly a priority applied to the masses. Easier to control that way. What need back then of a basic laborer to be able to read?
As for the Greeks and Romans, mostly tutoring perhaps for the rich, well connected and powerful, the elites essentially. Small groups at best.
The universities were mostly church affiliated, had to get the clergy from somewhere, oh yeah, have some lawyers and doctors as well. Most of those would have come from the elite classes as well. Local parishes may have provided some basic education, maybe enough to identify new blood, as it were. Before industrialization, it would have mostly been up to whatever the local community thought best and could afford.
I know the original colonists highly valued literacy. The closest thing to formality might have been the entrance standards for getting into the Ivies after they were built, which was not long after the colonies were established. Here's a pile of books, have at it, just muck out the barn first.
Vox Day's https://shop.aer.io/castalia has some collections that might be a good place to start. Maybe not the sci-fi, comics and fantasy collections, for now...
Not much of a classics guy myself, always preferred reading for fun, if it's not interesting in some way, I'm not going to read it. A mighty library system, with good books, decent books, sorta interesting books, and the great books free for all to read, preferably paper, a bit old-fashioned that way.
Hmm, random thought, learn it the hard way first, paper, pen and pencil. Hand tools, manual processes. What happens if the power goes out, the machine you're using breaks down, the network fails?
Skilled labor trades: would this not include carpentry, along with the automotive arts, plumbing and electrician skills?
Suggestion, include weapon use and care as a subset of military science.
Engineering includes mechanical, electrical, civil, aeronautical and probably more that I can't think of, passing familiarity with each branch with opportunity to specialize as your academic career advances and demonstrated skill allow.
I might be looking a little too closely at the trees here...
Waiting until age 8 to start is good, as is being able to get out at 15. If the schooling is done right, to the standards you're aiming for, a lot of 15yr olds should have no problem getting on with their lives in a successful and productive manner. Keeping boys and girls separate and having men teach the boys, and the wearing of uniforms, yeah, I like it. Burning off excess energy with physical activity, some unstructured, is a good idea as well.
You are correct about the limited information on courses of study. In this area, I can't begin to imagine what people of a particular time and place might find useful, so I've given some examples only. Do you think we should add more examples like the ones you've given?
On weapon use versus military science - military science is about scouting, mapping, logistics, chains of command, and all the things other than killing people and breaking things. Furthermore it seems to me to be a mistake to marry the use of deadly force to the idea of the military.
I'm going to ask a question about that in group to see if anyone has any ideas about this.
Schools in general must be re-imagined. The kind of school we have now is a poorly-executed example of getting people ready to be drones forever. It sucks the life out of people, to the point that so many of the kids need to be doped up just to function.
There is great value - perhaps supreme value - to being away from adults; from being in actual danger. There is great value to teaching your body to work, whether it's through sports or labor. Those are all lost now, because school was designed for 19th century factory workers and then coopted by communists.
As for the military. I don't think you can separate the use of force. You have to know and understand weapons, their use and capabilities to understand what scouting is about, mapping-understanding the ground is just as much about determining which weapons to use and to what effect. Logistics, well, that's a science in and of itself, you screw that up and weapons won't matter, I'm pretty sure knowing how best to service and supply those weapons and the ammo in a timely manner is a core subject, that and the food. Setting up defensive fortifications, you have to know effective weapon ranges under the various conditions likely to be encountered.
We're going to need some folks in here with practical military experience. We could also probably use some 19th century West Point graduates. Me, I was just an Army brat with an electronics geek for an old man who retired in the 70s. Unable to serve for medical reasons, read a lot though, history and alt-history over the years, so I've got ideas, maybe strange ones, but ideas nonetheless.
I would start with being able to read, comprehend what you read and apply it in logical, practical, creative and relatively sane ways, being able to write in a concise, clear manner (not my strong suit), and being knowledgeable and sufficiently skilled in Business Math as the absolute minimum goals for a suitable education. Outside of that, you've covered a lot more than I would have considered. Much of which I would normally have considered elective material.
The overall goal of a well rounded citizen, with enough familiarity with a wide array of subjects, is good. We're going to need generalists to complement specialists, they will be vital.
There was some sci-fi tome I read a long time ago, one of the characters was described as a spark plug, he was highly educated in otherwise unconnected fields. So when a specialist in one field came up with something new, the spark plug might see a connection in another field and thus more ideas and more value was sparked. That concept has followed me for years, partly why I like knowing stuff, and learning even useless stuff, you just never know when it will become useful.
Here's a pile of books, have at it, we're going to need some of that in the school 'system'. Yeah, I might have read/skimmed through the entire Encyclopedia Britannica in the 11th and 12th grades.
Another thought, who would be qualified to teach? No more straight from basic school, to college/university and out into the schools with a teaching degree in whatever subject. I think most subjects should require people with practical experience in their fields, with accomplishments and solid reputation to go with the experience.
Especially on the trades side of things, we want the grizzled, scarred, fingers and limbs missing men who became good the hard way. Would still have to filter out for decent educators though.
Some subjects might be safe to have 20 somethings teach, perhaps early on and at the most basic levels.
I don't know. It's one of those "know it when you see it" things. I really don't know.
There ought not to be a licensing board. It should not be a trade - that is, it should not be unionized. There ought not to be a guild.
However without some protection similar to tenure we will lose real scholars and real scholarship to the mob.
I'm going to do this, and if you think of it, you do it too - I'm going to see how it was done in ancient Greece, in Rome, in Medieval times, and perhaps up to 1750. There is probably an exemplary model or models in there somewhere.
The amazing part of this project is that almost all of these hoary chestnuts have been cracked. The one thing we have not yet overcome is postmodernism and its cancerous fingers throughout our world.
Well, universal, or near universal education was not exactly a priority applied to the masses. Easier to control that way. What need back then of a basic laborer to be able to read?
As for the Greeks and Romans, mostly tutoring perhaps for the rich, well connected and powerful, the elites essentially. Small groups at best.
The universities were mostly church affiliated, had to get the clergy from somewhere, oh yeah, have some lawyers and doctors as well. Most of those would have come from the elite classes as well. Local parishes may have provided some basic education, maybe enough to identify new blood, as it were. Before industrialization, it would have mostly been up to whatever the local community thought best and could afford.
I know the original colonists highly valued literacy. The closest thing to formality might have been the entrance standards for getting into the Ivies after they were built, which was not long after the colonies were established. Here's a pile of books, have at it, just muck out the barn first.
I could be wrong on some of this...
It sounds right. But we could both be recalling conventional wisdom rather than true things.
The “here is a stack of books, much out the barn” is a promising start though.
I’m going to look some more.
At some point these essays will slow down because I will have to research.
I don’t dare write a list of “great books” because I’m not a classicist but maybe I get some help with that.
Vox Day's https://shop.aer.io/castalia has some collections that might be a good place to start. Maybe not the sci-fi, comics and fantasy collections, for now...
Not much of a classics guy myself, always preferred reading for fun, if it's not interesting in some way, I'm not going to read it. A mighty library system, with good books, decent books, sorta interesting books, and the great books free for all to read, preferably paper, a bit old-fashioned that way.
Hmm, random thought, learn it the hard way first, paper, pen and pencil. Hand tools, manual processes. What happens if the power goes out, the machine you're using breaks down, the network fails?
Apprenticeships come to mind.
Minor edit:
Outdoor survival including game hunting
Skilled labor trades: would this not include carpentry, along with the automotive arts, plumbing and electrician skills?
Suggestion, include weapon use and care as a subset of military science.
Engineering includes mechanical, electrical, civil, aeronautical and probably more that I can't think of, passing familiarity with each branch with opportunity to specialize as your academic career advances and demonstrated skill allow.
I might be looking a little too closely at the trees here...
Waiting until age 8 to start is good, as is being able to get out at 15. If the schooling is done right, to the standards you're aiming for, a lot of 15yr olds should have no problem getting on with their lives in a successful and productive manner. Keeping boys and girls separate and having men teach the boys, and the wearing of uniforms, yeah, I like it. Burning off excess energy with physical activity, some unstructured, is a good idea as well.
Thank you for all your ideas!
You are correct about the limited information on courses of study. In this area, I can't begin to imagine what people of a particular time and place might find useful, so I've given some examples only. Do you think we should add more examples like the ones you've given?
On weapon use versus military science - military science is about scouting, mapping, logistics, chains of command, and all the things other than killing people and breaking things. Furthermore it seems to me to be a mistake to marry the use of deadly force to the idea of the military.
I'm going to ask a question about that in group to see if anyone has any ideas about this.
Schools in general must be re-imagined. The kind of school we have now is a poorly-executed example of getting people ready to be drones forever. It sucks the life out of people, to the point that so many of the kids need to be doped up just to function.
There is great value - perhaps supreme value - to being away from adults; from being in actual danger. There is great value to teaching your body to work, whether it's through sports or labor. Those are all lost now, because school was designed for 19th century factory workers and then coopted by communists.
As for the military. I don't think you can separate the use of force. You have to know and understand weapons, their use and capabilities to understand what scouting is about, mapping-understanding the ground is just as much about determining which weapons to use and to what effect. Logistics, well, that's a science in and of itself, you screw that up and weapons won't matter, I'm pretty sure knowing how best to service and supply those weapons and the ammo in a timely manner is a core subject, that and the food. Setting up defensive fortifications, you have to know effective weapon ranges under the various conditions likely to be encountered.
We're going to need some folks in here with practical military experience. We could also probably use some 19th century West Point graduates. Me, I was just an Army brat with an electronics geek for an old man who retired in the 70s. Unable to serve for medical reasons, read a lot though, history and alt-history over the years, so I've got ideas, maybe strange ones, but ideas nonetheless.
You ideas are magnificent.
Would you make the same kind of recommendations (eg a list of topics suitable) and if so what would they be? And if not, how would you lay it out?
I would start with being able to read, comprehend what you read and apply it in logical, practical, creative and relatively sane ways, being able to write in a concise, clear manner (not my strong suit), and being knowledgeable and sufficiently skilled in Business Math as the absolute minimum goals for a suitable education. Outside of that, you've covered a lot more than I would have considered. Much of which I would normally have considered elective material.
The overall goal of a well rounded citizen, with enough familiarity with a wide array of subjects, is good. We're going to need generalists to complement specialists, they will be vital.
There was some sci-fi tome I read a long time ago, one of the characters was described as a spark plug, he was highly educated in otherwise unconnected fields. So when a specialist in one field came up with something new, the spark plug might see a connection in another field and thus more ideas and more value was sparked. That concept has followed me for years, partly why I like knowing stuff, and learning even useless stuff, you just never know when it will become useful.
Here's a pile of books, have at it, we're going to need some of that in the school 'system'. Yeah, I might have read/skimmed through the entire Encyclopedia Britannica in the 11th and 12th grades.